More on Johnson fight against HB 1215/Referred Measure 6

This e-mail is making the rounds on the internet tonight among politicos and bloggers:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Megan Colon (Email redacted by pp)
Date: Sep 27, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: Help South Dakota stop a ban on women's rights

Hello! Well, I'm on my soap box again about one of the most egregious pieces of egislation (HB1215) that SD has passed. Most of you know about the recent bill that was passed in SD that would prohibit women from having an abortion, except if the mother's life was in danger, even if the case of rape or incest! This legislation is completely unacceptable. On November 7 South Dakotans will head to the polls and
voice their dissent of this bill, however, there is tons of work that must be done before then. Currently, there is an organization called the South Dakota Healthy Families Campaign that is doing all it can to overturn this ban and our efforts are working. In a recent poll 47 % of South Dakotans DO NOT want this ban with 13 % undecided.

Last night I attended a fundraiser for the campaign and met some of the key advocates for women's reproductive rights. I also met the most newly hired President of SD NARAL and her name is Casey Murschel, a Republican State Legislator who ran for Mayor of Sioux Falls and is disgusted by HB1215. All of the people who spoke, made the point that this bill is too rigid and restrictive. Clearly it is up to South Dakotans to repeal the abortion law this fall. However, everyone can help make this campaign effort be stronger!

I'm asking you today to reach into those wallets (I'm sure they are just as empty as mine) and donate, even if it is something small! Women, if you can think back to the last pair of shoes you bought and write a check for the same amount that would be awesome and for the guys out there, how much did you pay for that last sports ticket? It would be equally as awesome if you could give that much as well! Please click on the link below and donate whatever you can. Women everywhere need to know that they have a right when it comes to family planning!

https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/sdhf-private

Thanks again for listening to me ! Let's make sure that SD puts a stop to this nonsensical bill!

All the best!

megan

P.S. please forward to as many people as you know!
Megan Colon


Why is this something to make note of? Megan Colon is one of Tim Johnson's staffers in DC.

Now before you start, this is clearly done on her own time and from her personal e-mail address. But it's also coming on the heels of her boss recording a message on the topic.

And again, I'd point out that this measure was as strongly (or more strongly) supported by legislative Democrats in comparison to their Republican counterparts - where do those elected officials now sit with the Senator's office.

Why do I point it out again? The donation account set up under act blue:



The Act Blue umbrella decribes itself as "The online clearinghouse for Democratic Action." So, what about the democratic sponsors of the measure? where do they fall in all of this?

I'd say it again - by jumping in with both feet, the Senator might find he's becoming mired in a topic he might regret focusing in on when 2008 comes around.

Comments

Anonymous said…
Referred Measure 6 is a dangerous piece of legislation that threatens the rights of women in crisis. We are fortunate to have a senator who believes strongly enough in a issue that he is willing to take a stand, no matter how it could affect his political future.
It is unfortunate that Governor Rounds, who capital insiders claim did not want to sign HB1215, and the legislators who opposed it couldn't have developed a backbone and stood up for what they believe. It would have saved the state a lot of money, and it might have avoided some of the division in the state as well.
Anonymous said…
This is a civil rights fight. Not unlike slavery or segregation. The small child inside a women is alive and has civil rights as do the parents of the small child. The Governor should be praised for taking a stand to stop the genocide in our country. We are killing 4,000 small children a day with abortion. One child dies from eating Spinach and it is a nationwide news alert. We murder 4,000 a day folks!
Where is the Governor now? He should be out front leading the charge on supporting Referred Law 6, and a Yes vote on the same.
Where is Senator John Thune. As I recall he was "pro-life" when he was elected. If he sits idly by there are thousands of pro-life folks in the state that will not be on his side if there is another choice in 2010. Please pray for Senator Thune and for the Governor and write and call them urging them to take a stand for the small unborn children of our state.
Anonymous said…
Thune has joined the majority of South Dakotan's that find 1215 to be a draconian attempt to place the health of thousands of women at risk. He should be supported for this courageous stand. For once our senators are united on an issue!
Anonymous said…
Tim Johnson and his staffers just want to create some contrast between them and Gov Rounds for the big race between them in 2008.
Anonymous said…
Civil rights are for people who have left their mother's womb and taken their first breaths. Small unborn children, technically called fetuses, can't breathe and they can't vote. Women can.

It appears that Rounds and Thunes have the good sense to realize how radical and cruel Referred Measure 6 really is.

There might be hope for South Dakota yet!
nonnie said…
A human being spends the first nine months of life in the mother's womb and the next hopefully many years outside the womb. Same person, same life. Why is that so hard to understand?
Anonymous said…
Nonnie - An undeveloped fetus is not the same thing as a human being. It technically is not considered a human being until it takes a breath, although most people would say that occurs when the fetus can survive outside of the womb.

South Dakota Obstericians and Gynecologists don't seem to have any trouble making that distinction. Their organization has come out against Referred Measure 6.

The 14th amendment, which addresses civil rights, states that all persons BORN or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
It does not address people who have not been born.

The Bible says that people begin life when they take their first breath.

So perhaps YOU are the one who is having difficulty understanding things.
Anonymous said…
So it is breathing that makes you a life? What about people on ventilators? What is so different about a baby in the womb than one outside of it??
Anonymous said…
Anons 8:12 and 8:47--The 14th amendment also uses the phrase "any person" in describing the protections it affords. Interesting how the 14th amendment applies to illegal aliens because they are "persons" but according to your analysis of the 14th you must be "born" or "naturalized" in order for it to apply.
Anonymous said…
9:40, George Bush doesn't believe the 14th amendment applies to anyone who's not a citizen. He believes he can imprison non-citizens indefinitely without a trial or a lawyer to defend them, and when forced - to try them in a military tribunal without giving them any information to aid with their defense.

But even the poor wretches in Bush's gulags have been born.
rock said…
Wow, so Democrats think HB 1215 goes too far, and Republicans sort of... oh I don't know... how about squirm.

Good enough for me. Hey, somebody should take the time to look at voter registration changes. It might be interesting.
Anonymous said…
"Bush's gulags"
What planet are you from? And would you please go back there? We have enough illegal aliens here as it is.

"Referred Measure 6 is a dangerous piece of legislation that threatens the rights of women in crisis."
Not passing 6 is dangerous to thousands of babies and wolves and eagles have more rights than an unborn baby does.

Sorry, I can't make sense of your thought processes at all.
Anonymous said…
Anon 10:16 pm - Do women and their welfare ever enter your thought process at all? Even people who consider themselves pro-life realize there are situations where the woman's welfare should take top priority. It's easy to spout off about killing babies when it isn't your wife, daughter or sister who has a crisis pregnancy.
I doubt that you can make sense of anyone else's thought processes, and that is your loss.
At least our leaders recognize the problem and refuse to support HB1215. That, and the statement issued by the obstetricians and gynecologists in our state, sends a strong message to voters who have been undecided on Referred 6.
Anonymous said…
Anon 2:32 - “Do women and their welfare ever enter your thought process at all?”

Well yes, actually the welfare of women concerns me greatly since I have been one all my life. As a mother, the welfare of babies, either born or unborn, also concerns me.



“Even people who consider themselves pro-life realize there are situations where the woman's welfare should take top priority. It's easy to spout off about killing babies when it isn't your wife, daughter or sister who has a crisis pregnancy.”

I had a “crisis” pregnancy and the thought of aborting my child never crossed my mind. How could killing my baby make my life better?



”I doubt that you can make sense of anyone else's thought processes, and that is your loss.”

When arguments fail, must you resort to insults to cover your ineptness?



”At least our leaders recognize the problem and refuse to support HB1215.”

On the contrary, our leaders have not refused to support HB1215. Gov. Rounds signed it and leaders of both parties in the South Dakota House and Senate passed it.



“That, and the statement issued by the obstetricians and gynecologists in our state, sends a strong message to voters who have been undecided on Referred 6.”

My daughter and her husband, both OB/GYNs, whole-heartedly endorse Referred Measure 6. And neither of them is now, nor ever has been, Catholic, to answer your unspoken question.
Anonymous said…
Anon 3:17 - When you had a crisis pregnancy, no one forced you to do anything, did they? Every situation is different, but at least you had a choice on what to do.

State leaders endorsed HB1215, but both of our U.S. senators oppose it, including one person who was expected to support it.
Who do you think has more clout, two U.S. senators or South Dakota legislators of whom most people have never heard? Regarding Gov. Rounds, perhaps he wouldn't have felt so pressured to sign the bill if he wasn't Catholic.

As far as your claim that your daughter and her husband are both OB/GYNs who approve of the bill - anyone could say that when they don't have to supply names or any other type of proof. If that is true, the opinion of two doctors who happen to be a couple isn't going to make any difference to most voters when the state organization is publicly opposing the bill.

And if you think my belief that you can't understand other people's thought processes is an insult ... all I can say is that I stand by my statement.

It must be easy to play god when you can watch from a distance and not deal with the pain.
Anonymous said…
It’s not me or the other folks supporting Referred Measure 6 who are trying to play God. Ghouls like you, who are more than willing to hack a totally defenseless unborn baby to death because the child’s birth would be an inconvenience, are the ones who are attempting to replace God. And believe me, He is not amused.

It is entirely up to you whether you believe that my daughter and son-in-law are OB/GYNs. Since you obviously believe whatever suits your warped views anyway it’s no skin off my nose, although, if I were you, I’d worry a lot about where you stand with God.

I hope you realize that if you have already committed the murder of your child, God will forgive your sin if you confess and repent. Hopefully, you will do that before it's too late.
Anonymous said…
Anon 10:57 - Glad to see you let down your guard and allowed your true self to emerge.

First of all, I am a grandmother who is WAY past childbearing age. I have never had an abortion nor have I even considered it.
I do, however, have a family member who is a trained counselor and has worked with and for rape and incest victims for the past 20 years. (She has no connection to Planned Parenthood and never has had.)
She cannot publicly discuss individual cases, but if she could you would hear about things that you probably could not even imagine possible. Everything is not as black and white as you would like to believe.
I would list her name, but the last time her name surfaced in a news article related to this topic, the wackos obtained contact information from her work website and she was besieged with e-mails and phone calls to the point that she feared for the safety of herself and her family.

Second, I am not playing God. How could I be when I say that women should be allowed to make their own choices in crisis pregnancies? I certainly was not talking about myself!

Third, now you claim that you KNOW what God thinks. Are you hearing voices that tell you this, or is this what your religion teaches you?
Before you make any assumptions, I will add that I am and always have been a practicing Christian who is active in my church. I am comfortable with what I believe my standing with God is.
I would never presume to tell you what your standing with God is, nor would I dictate what you should do in the event of a crisis pregnancy.

You cannot control what other people do. All you can do is pray about it and leave it up to God.
Anonymous said…
There is no doubt in my mind what God thinks. He’s made his positions very plain in His Word. What part of “Thou shall not kill” don’t you understand?

I don’t presume to tell you what your standing with God is either, but I strongly protest anyone’s “right” to kill another innocent human, no matter which side of the birth canal that human is on.

Sure, I know that bad things happen to good people, but just because a baby has been conceived through a violent rape, incest or consensual sex with an underage girl, the baby should not have to die for its father’s sins. That baby has as much right to live as any other child.

I am strongly in favor of doing vast and permanent damage to the perpetrator of the crime that caused the unwanted pregnancy and believe that just putting these criminals to death is going too easy on them. I think the rapist should be “disarmed” before he is put to death. How’s that for vindictiveness?

I have seen women close to me that suffered for years after they ended a pregnancy caused by sexual assault and I wouldn’t wish the anguish they feel for causing the death of their child on anyone, not even someone like you.

Why not give these babies a chance to live? It will only require 9 months of your life for you to give your child an opportunity to grow up in an adoptive home with parents that will be forever grateful to you and you won’t have to live with the blood of your own child on your hands
Anonymous said…
So we're back to the old argument of when life begins. The Bible says it begins when someone takes his or her first breath.
I don't think that interpretation should be taken quite that literally, but we know a fetus in an early term pregnancy is not viable. For that reason, most people believe that an undeveloped fetus should not always take precedence over the well-being of a woman who CAN breathe, think and feel.

Scientific studies that were printed in the Journal of American Medicine and by the American Psychological Association showed that some - but not all - women experience problems after an abortion. Those who had problems were women who went against their religious teachings or women who were surrounded by anti-abortion people who said things that made them feel guilty. Other women had no problems whatsoever. (Source: www.wikipedia.com - search for post abortion syndrome)

No one is advocating that people be forced to act against their religion or any other beliefs.

There really is nothing else to say about it that hasn't been said thousands of times already.
People do not agree on this. That is why it is dividing this state and why it must go before the voters.

The fact that you can get so worked up about someone else's business is not mentally healthy.
You cannot be certain of where God stands on this issue because it is not specifically addressed in the Bible. All of it is left up to interpretation, and no one can say with absolute certainty which interpretation is the correct one. Anyone who believes otherwise is delusional.

You cannot control what other people believe. People's beliefs are based on their own upbringings, their own religious teachings, and their own life experiences.

And you cannot control what other people do. Even if Referred Measure 6 would pass, desperate women will find a way to have an abortion.

Like I said before, all you can do is pray and give it over to God. If you find that impossible to do, please get help.
Anonymous said…
Aborting babies is “someone else’s business” and wanting to stop this wholesale slaughter for convenience’s sake is not “mentally healthy”? I imagine that you and Hitler would see eye to eye on other issues as well, but I don’t think it’s my mental health that we should be concerned about here…

Rape, murder and robbery are all illegal, but since people haven’t stopped committing these crimes, does that mean we should legalize them?

You’re going to have to give me a lot stronger reason to believe that a baby isn’t alive just because it has not been born yet.

Have you ever watched a sonogram?

Have you ever felt the child in your womb kick so hard you can see her tiny foot outlined on your abdomen?

Silly me, I always thought my babies were alive while they were moving around within me. I guess my lack of education is showing?
Anonymous said…
5:05 pm - You have a right to your opinion. You just don't have a right to try and force your opinion on other people.

Rape, murder and robbery are illegal because they are crimes that cannot be allowed in an orderly society. Society as a whole agrees that those three acts are crimes. Society as a whole does not agree that abortion is a crime.

What is so hard about praying about the problem and turning it over to God instead of trying to control things yourself? The very fact that you cannot do that speaks volumes about your faith, or more accurately, your lack of faith.

I see no point in arguing further with someone who is obviously as disturbed as you are.

You need help. I hope you get it - for your sake and for everyone around you.
Anonymous said…
It really doesn’t matter whether “society as a whole” sees something as a crime or not. If an act damages the rights of another, that act is a crime.

“Society as a whole” doesn’t agree that nasty things like pedophilia and incest are crimes either. There are always those who feel that “if it feels good, do it”, no matter who is hurt in the process.

Wanting to save babies from being hacked to death in the womb makes me disturbed?

Believing that God includes people on both sides of the birth canal when He said “Thou shall not kill” makes me disturbed?

I must point out that you are the one who wants “control things” by killing babies instead of giving them a chance at life.

Methinks that the most disturbed individual here may not be me, but then that’s just my humble opinion.
Anonymous said…
“Society as a whole” doesn’t agree that nasty things like pedophilia and incest are crimes either"

Last time I checked, pedophilia and incest are against the law EVERYWHERE. Even other prisoners detest child molesters, probably because so many of them were molested as children themselves.

You definitely need to get out more.
Anonymous said…
Why do you insist on having the ”right” to hack that defenseless, unborn child to death just because he or she is an inconvenience? Living with the consequences of aborting your own flesh and blood will haunt you for the rest of your life.

You haven't answered my question yet:
Why not give these babies a chance to live? It will only require nine months of your life to give that unwanted child an opportunity to grow up in an adoptive home with parents that will be forever grateful for your gift of life and you won’t have to live with the blood of your own child on your hands.
Anonymous said…
You have not demonstrated rational thinking. You claim to know what God thinks, and you think society accepts pedophilia and incest. I'm not even certain to whom you are addressing your comments since I have explained that I am beyond childbearing age.

If you have had trauma in your life that made you this way, I'm sorry. But I'm not going to waste any more of my time trying to explain something to you when it is clear that you cannot grasp anything that conflicts with your own distorted viewpoint.

Your obsession with this is not healthy. Please get help.
Mom said…
Generally speaking, when someone begins telling someone else that "they need help" and "should get counseling" and "I am not going to waste anymore time discussing with you" , It is because they are so hard and brittle in their own beliefs that they can no longer listen well.

It is unkind to make those kinds of accusations to someone that you have not met and don't know well. It shows a lack of being able to look at another's point of view.

It is sad that our population has become so divided that one cannot discuss and listen without becoming unkind and making personal slams.
Anonymous said…
Mom - Either you think that comparing people to Hitler and calling them baby killers and ghouls is normal, or you didn't read the rest of the posts. That sort of rude, hysterical behavior is why the radical right lacks credibility with the general public.
I did not say the person, whoever he or she is, needs help to be mean. I sincerely believe this person needs help.
I suggest you go back and read the posts again, starting with 10:16. After reading all of it, if you still think this person's behavior is normal, then maybe you need help too.
Anonymous said…
This is a follow-up to the message above. I now realize there are two 10:16 postings. The one to which I referred starts off with Bush's gulags.
Anonymous said…
Thanks Mom. I appreciate your comments but it looks to me like anon 7:49 has closed her ears to rational discussion. She could easily also find out how God feels about killing if she would just open a Bible, not that she cares. I have a feeling that God’s Word is not where she goes for guidance.

I guess I’ll just agree to disagree with her, although I’m glad to see that there are others reading this blog who also “need help”.

I just can’t get my mind around the fact that there are people out there who consider the slaughter of unborn babies normal behavior and think those of us who defend the defenseless are “rude, hysterical, and lacking credibility”.
Anonymous said…
Anon 2:17 pm - I read my Bible daily, thank you. It is merely the interpretation upon which we disagree.

No matter what you say, the fact remains that the Bible does not specifically address this matter. Yes, it says "Thou shall not kill," but it also says that a person is not alive until he or she draws his or her first breath.

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith as you believe. But you do not have the right to force your beliefs onto someone else. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Freedom of religion is one of the principals upon which our nation was founded. Our forefathers came to this country so they could practice their own religion without having someone else dictate their beliefs to them. The Anglicans in England thought their religion was better than everyone else's too.

I do not think the random killing of unborn fetuses is normal behavior. Those are your words, not mine.
Nowhere did I state that I thought abortion on demand was okay. In fact, I do not think that.

I merely said that there are circumstances - exceptions - where the woman's welfare must outweigh the child's.
We do not know specific circumstances, and we do not know how much each person can handle. If a woman is in a crisis pregnancy, we can only hope that she will seek counsel from her pastor or someone who can give her some guidance to help her decide what is the best decision for her.
If the wrong decision is made, she will have to answer to God, but not to you or me.

Because I believe that, you compared me with Hitler, called me a ghoul and made inferences that I was a baby killer. Most people would agree that making those remarks was both rude and hysterical, and it did rob you of credibility.

You can keep right on thinking that you are God's appointed spokesperson and that you are so much better than those of us who believe that we do not have the right to make private decisions for strangers in crisis.

And I will continue to think that comparing people to Hitler, and calling people ghouls and baby killers is not normal behavior.
Anonymous said…
The Bible says what?

Since you claim to read the Bible daily, could you give us a specific reference (chapter and verse, please) for anywhere in the Bible that it says "that a person is not alive until he or she draws his or her first breath"?

How do you explain this verse about the pre-born John the Baptist from Luke 1:41 - "And it came about that when Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb"?

I interpret this to mean that John the Baptist was alive, although he was weeks away from being born. What is your explanation for this passage?

“No one is denying you the right to practice your faith as you believe. But you do not have the right to force your beliefs onto someone else. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?”

Tell me, aren’t you “forcing your beliefs” onto those unborn babies when you allow them to be killed in the womb? Don’t you think they would object being forced to submit to their own deaths if they were able to tell us what they want?

If this is your way to show compassion for a crisis pregnancy, I hope you realize that in every abortion there is at least one fatality and that death was not a decision agreed to by the victim.
Anonymous said…
I would be more than happy to supply you with that information.

Genesis 2:7 KJV, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being."

Ezekiel 37: 9-10 KJV - Also He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live." So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army."

You might also find this verse interesting. Exodus 21: 22-25, "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."
In case you can't grasp that interpretation, if the man causes the woman to abort, he can be fined as the husband determines. But if he causes the woman to die, he dies. The implication is clear, the Bible states that the fetus does not have the same value as the mother!

How do I explain Luke 1:41? John the Baptist was a divine prophet ordained by God to herald the arrival of Christ on earth. Unlike John the Baptist, we are not divine prophets who can understand the spoken word while in the womb. Gestating fetuses sometimes move while the muscular and nervous systems are developing, but that is not the same as understanding the spoken word. Therefore, this verse does not apply to us - unless we are divine prophets.

The point that you cannot seem to get through your head is that I am not FORCING anything on anybody. To the contrary, I am advocating that women in crisis pregnancies - whether it is the result of rape, incest or where the mother's health would be seriously compromised - be allowed to make their own choices.
I don't make the choice for her. You don't make the choice for her. The government doesn't make the choice for her. She makes the choice herself.

The one thing you seem to overlook is that there is a woman involved here. This isn't just about a fetus or the father, who you would like to "disarm" if he is a rapist as a way of vindication, this is about a living, breathing woman who can feel and think for herself. This is HER body we are talking about too, not just the fetus.
It would be preferable if a pregnancy could be carried to term, but if the woman cannot handle it emotionally or physically, it should be her decision as to what to do. Not the government's decision or some stranger's decision, but hers. This is especially true if it is a first-trimester pregnancy.

Now if you think the fact that I believe that there should be exceptions to an abortion ban puts me on the same level as Hitler, all I can say is I have plenty of company.

So go ahead and call me a ghoul and a baby killer, even though I've never had an abortion or ever performed one on someone else.
At least you can't call me a holier-than-thou, control freak.

Is there anything else that you would like for me to look up for you? I have Bibles in the New English Version, the Revised Standard Version, and the New International Version too. Plus I have some excellent reference books.
You see, I DO turn to God's word for guidance. Then I pray and turn my problems over to Him. You should try it sometime.
Anonymous said…
Why don't you just leave God in charge of who should live and who should die? Or don't you think He is capable of handling those decisions on His own?
Anonymous said…
Anon 11:43 - I think God can make those decisions much better than we can for each other. He knows what is in our hearts, and He is the One who we have to answer to in the end.

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