I'm stunned speechless at this.

From Reuters at Yahoo.com:
Student leaders at a California college have touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government.

The move by Orange Coast College student trustees, the latest clash over patriotism and religion in American schools, has infuriated some of their classmates -- prompting one young woman to loudly recite the pledge in front of the board on Wednesday night in defiance of the rule.

"America is the one thing I'm passionate about and I can't let them take that away from me," 18-year-old political science major told Reuters.

"The fact that they have enough power to ban one of the most valued traditions in America is just horrible," Zoldos said, adding she would attend every board meeting to salute the flag.

The move was lead by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.
Read it all here.

If "they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school," then they probably shouldn't get the things that the government they "won't swear allegiance to" provides, such as pell grants and government guaranteed student loans.

These mushy headed fools forget that there are still people in this world who will risk their lives to come to this country. And at least those same people hold their citizenship as one of the greatest honors that they can achieve.

Good for Christine Zoldos. At least someone at that school maintains a candle burning for the fading idea of patriotism.


Anonymous said…
Like that has any relevance to anything happening in South Dakota. Quit trying to import devisive issues into our state.
Anonymous said…
The irony of this is that they are doing what they say "right-wing zealots" are doing -- shoving ideology down people's throats. Give people a choice whether they want to recite the pledge or stand by quietly.
Anonymous said…
I'd vote for sending the student board to Iraq for a year, or so.
Anonymous said…
Wait until Nancy is running things, you have seen nothing yet.
Anonymous said…

Remember when I proposed that the Student's Assn Meetings at State start with the pledge? Makes me think that Randall Beck has been around for 20 years...could it be the press?

Douglas said…
Gosh, there must not be any election news.

The flag pledge is stupid. Is now and always has been. It is idolatry. Why aren't the Christianists out ragging on "Thou shalt have no other god's before me" on this issue?

Should every meeting start with a loyalty oath? We have been down that McCarthyite road before.

Blind patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels.
Anonymous said…
You left out this part of the news story:

"Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge," [a student] said.

Maybe we could shorten the pledge to "Sieg Heil."
Anonymous said…
Geez, pp... I thought this was a conservative Republican blog.. How come you've got so many leftist fringes on here?

I'll bet you a nickel that none of them that have posted this anti-pledge crap are veterans.
Douglas said…
"I'm stunned speechless at this"

Another GOP lie. Resolve to tell the truth after that last election, but we won't hold you to being mute from now on.

Well, all hyperbole aside, it is much ado about nearly nothing. I know a veteran or two who are rather POed that the right-wing and the military owns the flag and that any misdeed and ill-begotten policy can be hidden behind that "curtain".

And seriously now. Thanks PP for allowing more than wingnut loons to post comments here. It shows a level of courage in defending your principles that is lacking on many conservative blogs and it helps maintain the interest in your blog by more than wingnut right loons.

Keep up the good work even if I envy your hit statistics.
Anonymous said…

Kiss my Republican, God Loving, Pledge Loving A$$.
Douglas said…
Isn't open discussion, freedom of speech and press wonderful?

And the beat goes on.......

Inquiring minds want to know, does the US need more pledge-loving asses?
Anonymous said…
Holly Buckets!!!
I suggest try saying or reading the Pledge! Look at the words and feel the words and then remember who fought for those words and why you have to right to be doing all the many things you are doing right now.
The US Flag and the Words are and mean AMERICA!!!
The words are NOT just any words they stand for what we are- AMERICA!
Anonymous said…
Hey DouglASS,

You don't deserve to live in America
What stuns me about this is that adults were saying the Pledge in the first place. The last time I did that I was in grade school. We certainly never said it in college. I'm having a hard time even thinking of a situation in which it would come up. Is it usual for adults to say the Pledge in their daily lives?

FWIW, I'm not generally in favor of swearing allegiance publically in this way. If you have to make a point of doing it, it suggests to me that you're not really serious about it in the first place. Either your allegiance is in your heart or it isn't. Doing it publically is just for show.
Anonymous said…
Anon 9:24
Humm, I find that interesting we say the Pledge at our county GOP Meetings. I think maybe if more people did and listened to what they were really saying and what it really means they might understand. It is simular to singing God Bless America. If you really listen to the words and the meaning it can give you the chills. At least to me both do.
Anonymous said…
Yea, a show of respect for America! Which I think is very important!
Joan said…
5:22 pm - You wrote: "Kiss my Republican, God Loving, Pledge Loving A$$."

Is it an accident or a Freudian slip that you used dollar signs instead of the letter S in the last word?

(Didn't anyone else notice that?!)
Anonymous said…
(9:24) Hey, plain old feminist, didn't I see you pledging your allegiance to abortion at the no on 6 rally downtown??
PP said…
7:25 - unless you're prepared to cite easily verifiable sources, That's kind of a no no, and I can't let it stand.
Anonymous said…
Douglas wrote: "the flag pledge is stupid . . .why aren't Chirstians ragging on this"

Psst, Christians invented and perpetuate this idolatry. If that wasn't enough, they were the ones who amended it to be done with the Bellamy salute (Nazi-like) until that fell out of favor, then amended the pledge again to include "under God." Oh the blasphemy. The hypocrites partook in riots to force Jehovahs Witnesses to say it; and one should recall the purge that forced the Hutterites from South Dakota, in part, because they refused to swear an oath to a government of men. What could be more conservative than, "sieg heil".

Check out wiki and the history of South Dakota. Anonymous can donate his nickel to the VFW.

20 year Army combat vet
Anonymous said…
The U S Flag represents America! It is a symbol of America. We as Americans are to honor and respect it and the meaning attached to the words. Other countries do the same thing. Yes it may be fabric of stars and stripes but it is what the stars and stripes represent that we respect and those who fought (military) to put all the stars and stripes on it and keep it safe (America) and to be One Nation Under God Indivisible with Liberty and Justice for all. Now those are powerful words.
Seems to me that "those coming of age" as the saying goes... we have been safe and comfortable is it possible that the meaning is taken for granted? I believe it could be a possibility in the masses.
1:42: no.
Douglas said…
The US Flag is a symbol for every American not just a special select segment of the population convinced it is "their ball".

The pledge on the other hand as it has been amended is a form of polical harassment and enforcement of a politically correct theocracy.

One can love the flag and what it stands for and at the same time detest the pledge.
Anonymous said…
Hey DouglASS,

Go spew your garbage on CCK. They will like you over there.
Anonymous said…
Douglas, If i may ask, of course you can choose to not answer, and please don't take offense, But i can understand if this question does make you upset.
Are you an Atheist? The reason I ask is that the word God seems to get at you as does placing of the hand over the heart IF I read your comments correct prior to your last post.
I also agree that the US Flag is for every American not just a select few. I have never thought any different.
A possible "other" question could be; Are you a science major with a masters or PHD? Yes, Master's and PHD levels do blog.
Anonymous said…
Why did this "room go empty??? No comments????
Douglas said…
I usually don't answer personal questions in blogs.

I have a BS degree from USD in government and have taken masters and phd. level courses in SD and at the U of Rochester.

Loyalty oaths, flag pledges, swearing on Bibles in courts are all things used to manipulate people or abuse them under color of authority.

I don't think we can either know there is a supernatural diety or there is not. For that reason I don't think it is appropriate for politicians and their apologists to claim that a politician or his policies are on the side of any god.

Politicians will exploit anything including religion, faith, and patriotism in their own petty attempt to maintain their own power.

Those of faith and those without it all should be very wary and cautious of those politicians claiming specialness because of some kind of association with religions and theology.
Anonymous said…

And those of you who don't believe in God need to quit trying to cram your non-beliefs down our throats.

If you don't like living in a country founded on the principles of God, then shut up or get out!
Douglas said…
The post by "anonymouse 4:02" demonstrates a level of ignorance and stupidity so high, it must be satire.

About the only thing "GOD" had to do with forming this country is that many of the founders were fully familiar with the dangers of GOD theocracy to personal freedoms and knowledge.

Bless the founders for giving us a country where freedom of speech is encouraged as a positive force for better even if as A4:02 demonstrates it is not always the case.
Anonymous said…

Your just pissed about your new nickname...

ha ha ha
Anonymous said…

I understand what you are saying. Yes, God can be intimidating, for those who believe and maybe also for those who do not believe.

By the way, I am sorry that you felt you had to lay your education
out there for the world to see!

Many Science majors and many PHD levels tend to not believe in the unknown, the untouchable as some with less education for the same reasons. I do believe in God.

I know there are "some" politicans who truly mean it when they talk about being a Christian.
Some voters want to base their support on a candidate who has like morals and values...this is why it is important to voters imho.

Society as a whole can see some changes that many voters do not want or believe in as the saying goes "were going down the wrong path/direction". It doesn't matter which party.

With this topic we could open up a whole book of blog posts.

Sorry I am not taking the time to post a resonable response with meaning.

This post or conversation would be a good topic imho in
Science and Religion can they work together.

I do believe they both do play an important part in the debate in todays society.

Believing in the unknown is a comfort. Knowing there is something/someone -God- bigger than we are out there and some place to go instead of the cold dark dirt. God sets the example we are to follow - though it is hard for a human to do.

Placing a hand on the Bible is reminding us to remember honesty and integrity, right from wrong, truth.

I tend to type what ever comes to mind at the moment so call me a brain storm blogger.
Anonymous said…
Question: Have you heard a politician or candidate talk about a special relationship or ability because of God?
Anonymous said…
Another thought from Brain Storm Blogger:
So what is to be said about the Dems selecting pro-life, conservative candidates for the national elections this year? To me it says they are working the Christian base.
So will this split the dems if the newly elected Dems are truly Pro-life and conservative?
So what do you all think about this?
Anonymous said…
Plain(s)feminist 9:24 p

"FWIW, I'm not generally in favor of swearing allegiance publically in this way. If you have to make a point of doing it, it suggests to me that you're not really serious about it in the first place. Either your allegiance is in your heart or it isn't. Doing it publically is just for show."

When I say the pledge in public I am stating that I stand with America and that I respect and honor America. I put America before any other country and what America is to represent. It is not for show.

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